Shuttle SN27P2 SFF: AM2 gets the Tiny Treatment
by Jarred Walton on June 30, 2006 11:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Systems
Benchmark Setup
We have upgraded our SFF testbed quite a bit since last review, so we can't directly compare results with previous SFFs. We will be comparing the SN27P2 performance with that of desktop AM2 motherboards for now. If it can more or less match their performance, then the only real question will be whether or not you want to spend the money to get an SFF as opposed to a regular ATX system.
We're providing results for the SN27P2 with an X2 5000+. In light of the fact that the 2x1MB cache Athlon X2 processors are being discontinued (other than perhaps the FX line), we will likely be shifting much of our AM2 testing over to the 5000+ chips in the future. As you'll see, and as we discussed in the past, the faster CPU speed of the 5000+ with slower memory and less L2 cache ends up performing very nearly the same as the 4800+. We have included results from running the Foxconn C51XEM2AA with a 5000+ as well as a 4800+ for reference. The various AM2 motherboards we've tested so far all perform about the same, so the major decision factor will likely come down to features anyway. The key feature for the SN27P2 of course is its size, but noise control is also likely to be a major consideration.
We have also run our benchmarks with a 7900 GTX card as well as a 7900 GT. Either card will fit, but of course if you use the dual slot GTX you do not have any further internal expansion slot options. Whether or not that's important to you will depend on how you want to use the system. TV tuner and sound cards are the most likely use for the single PCI slot in this system, but an add-in sound card may not be necessary for most people, and you can get quite a few decent USB TV tuners. If you are simply planning on using the system as the core of an HTPC, our recommendation would be to grab one of the many fan-less GPUs that are coming to market, probably a 7600 (GT as an upgrade) or an X1600 Pro/XT would strike a decent balance between performance and power/heat requirements. If you don't need the 3D graphics performance, dropping down to an X1300 would also be a good option.
We have upgraded our SFF testbed quite a bit since last review, so we can't directly compare results with previous SFFs. We will be comparing the SN27P2 performance with that of desktop AM2 motherboards for now. If it can more or less match their performance, then the only real question will be whether or not you want to spend the money to get an SFF as opposed to a regular ATX system.
| Performance Test Configuration - Shuttle SN27P2 | |
| Processor: | Athlon X2 5000+ (AM2) |
| RAM: | 2 x 1GB Corsair Twin2x2048-8500C5 DDR2-800 at (CL4-4-4-13) |
| Hard Drive: | 1 x Maxtor MaXLine III 6V250F0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA (16MB Buffer) |
| Optical Drive: | BenQ DW1655 |
| System Platform Drivers: | NVIDIA 9.34 |
| Video Cards: | 1 x EVGA 7900GTX 1 x BFG 7900GT OC |
| Video Drivers: | NVIDIA 91.31 |
| Cooling: | ICE 4G |
| Power Supply: | SilentX 400W |
| Operating System(s): | Windows XP Professional SP2 |
| Performance Test Configuration - Foxconn C51XEM2AA | |
| Processors: | AMD Athlon 64 X2 - 4800+ (AM2) Athlon X2 5000+ (AM2) |
| RAM: | 2 x 1GB Corsair Twin2x2048-8500C5 DDR2-800 at (CL3-3-3-12) |
| Hard Drive: | 1 x Maxtor MaXLine III 7L300S0 300GB 7200 RPM SATA (16MB Buffer) |
| Optical Drive: | BenQ DW1655 |
| System Platform Drivers: | NVIDIA 9.34 |
| Video Cards: | 1 x EVGA 7900GTX |
| Video Drivers: | NVIDIA 91.31 |
| Cooling: | Zalman CNPS9500 AM2 |
| Power Supply: | OCZ GamexStream 700W |
| Operating System(s): | Windows XP Professional SP2 |
We're providing results for the SN27P2 with an X2 5000+. In light of the fact that the 2x1MB cache Athlon X2 processors are being discontinued (other than perhaps the FX line), we will likely be shifting much of our AM2 testing over to the 5000+ chips in the future. As you'll see, and as we discussed in the past, the faster CPU speed of the 5000+ with slower memory and less L2 cache ends up performing very nearly the same as the 4800+. We have included results from running the Foxconn C51XEM2AA with a 5000+ as well as a 4800+ for reference. The various AM2 motherboards we've tested so far all perform about the same, so the major decision factor will likely come down to features anyway. The key feature for the SN27P2 of course is its size, but noise control is also likely to be a major consideration.
We have also run our benchmarks with a 7900 GTX card as well as a 7900 GT. Either card will fit, but of course if you use the dual slot GTX you do not have any further internal expansion slot options. Whether or not that's important to you will depend on how you want to use the system. TV tuner and sound cards are the most likely use for the single PCI slot in this system, but an add-in sound card may not be necessary for most people, and you can get quite a few decent USB TV tuners. If you are simply planning on using the system as the core of an HTPC, our recommendation would be to grab one of the many fan-less GPUs that are coming to market, probably a 7600 (GT as an upgrade) or an X1600 Pro/XT would strike a decent balance between performance and power/heat requirements. If you don't need the 3D graphics performance, dropping down to an X1300 would also be a good option.
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SoSpartan - Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - link
Why do you state that the SN27P2 has a 400W power supply when your pictures clearly show a 350W power supply? Shuttle's website says 400W prominently, but their PDF spec sheet says 350W! What's the deal? The extra 50W could make the difference between running a nVidia 6800 vs 7900GTX or 7950GX2 stably!akp - Sunday, July 2, 2006 - link
Nice review in general, but I feel like there's one thing really missing. As you say on page 6 (Benchmark setup):The key feature for the SN27P2 of course is its size, but noise control is also likely to be a major consideration.
If you are simply planning on using the system as the core of an HTPC, our recommendation would be to grab one of the many fan-less GPUs that are coming to market, probably a 7600 (GT as an upgrade) or an X1600 Pro/XT would strike a decent balance between performance and power/heat requirements.
Given those factors, wouldn't it have made a lot of sense to include a fanless GPU in your benchmark setup? I really have to wonder how much of the power draw and noise was coming just from the graphics card in those tests.
JarredWalton - Sunday, July 2, 2006 - link
Actually, the majority of the noise under full load with the 7600GT comes from the CPU. However, the GPU is contributing a bit in that configuration. A fan-less GPU wasn't included because I don't have one at present. The idle noise with the 7600 GT used is almost entirely generated by the CPU/case cooling - maybe subtract 2 dB for the GPU at best.artifex - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
What was the temperature like when all bays were full of either hard drives or an active DVD burner? I'm wondering if it can really keep up in a situation like that. In my tower, my drives seem to get really hot without extra cooling. Please consider adding a test like this the next time you review SFFs.Also, e-SATA sounds cool, but that's strictly a drive interface. Wouldn't another firewire port have been more useful? Is e-SATA faster than FW400? If I use the firewire in the back for one external firewire drive, that means I'm left with a minifw in front for video cameras, etc. I'd really like more flexibility, there, so I'll be looking forward to your reviews of other AM2 SFFs for sure.
JarredWalton - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
SATA tops out at 300 MB per second these days (though in reality hard drives can't come near that number for sustained performance). FireWire 1394b tops out at 800 Mbps (one third as fast) and 1394a only hits 400 Mbps. That said, FireWire is a far more flexible interface, as there are many peripherals that use it. So far SATA is only for hard drives.As for installing three HDDs, I'd be very nervous if they were all hot drives. However, I have an SN25P with two HDDs that has been in use for about a year and it has no problems with temperatures. Under the right conditions (or wrong conditions if you prefer), the fans in the case will simply have to spin faster and make more noise. I don't think 51 dB is as loud as the SN25P can get, and the SN27P2 is basically the same in terms of cooling.
Note that the rear of the case does have two 60mm fans just for cooling the HDD area (mostly), so the only HDD spot I'd be concerned with is the floppy/HDD area, and then only if you were planning on running three HDDs along with a big GPU like a 7900 GTX or X1900 XTX. Even then, those large GPUs would probably just end up adding more noise and helping ventilation.
artifex - Monday, July 3, 2006 - link
Well, this might replace my Antex Soho tower with 3 accessory fans, so I'm used to the noise already. Also, I only have a 5500 since I'm not a big gamer, so this is looking better. Thanks again.Howard - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
What's an SPL meater?JarredWalton - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
Sound Pressure Level. Just a small device to measure how much noise is present. For example, I'm sitting in front of a 24" fan right now, which is rather noisy. It generates 55 dB of noise at a distance of six feet. Scary that some PCs are as loud as a standing fan. :|AnonymouseUser - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
What is the point of the last paragraph? This was a decent review until the very end."There are two major events that need to take place before we would recommend most people go out and buy this system, however. First, it needs to be available for purchase"
OK, that makes sense, but that pretty much goes without saying that it needs to be available before you can buy it.
"More importantly, as we've mentioned repeatedly over the past few weeks, you might as well wait a month now and find out what happens with the Core 2 Duo launch. That also gives the side benefit of lower X2 CPU prices, [[ so even if you're not interested in Intel's new processor lineup for whatever reason ]], the AM2 price cuts are likely to keep you waiting another month."
How does this affect the peformance of the SFF in the review? How does this affect the price of the SFF in the review?
This was a review of an AMD based SFF, not a comparison of AMD/Intel cpus, so we don't need your opinion on which CPU brand to choose.
Frumious1 - Saturday, July 1, 2006 - link
OMG Jarred! How DARE you mention crazy things like launch dates and prices cuts. WTF do those have to do with a review about an expensive-ass Shuttle SFF!? We AMD fanboys prefer to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that Core 2 Duo is just a bunch of lies and that AM2 will remain superior until hell freezes over. (Which, incidentally, is scheduled to happen around July 25th last I heard....)Seriously Anonymouse do you work for AMD or something? You many not give a damn about Core 2 Duo, but most of us don't have our blinders on. "How does this affect the peformance of the SFF in the review? How does this affect the price of the SFF in the review?"
I'd say that it means future SFFs like the SD37P2 will offer better performance than anything you can put in the SN27P2 (at least until AMD ships something other than a three-year-old K8 derivative), and it means that for the same $400+ that the Shuttles are going to cost you could end up with a better (faster and cooler running) SFF. Yes I said it: Core 2 Duo will be BETTER than AM2 X2! So stick THAT where the sun don't shine (right next to your head).
Freaking amazing how that thing called logic works, innit?
For the record, I don't work for Intel or AMD, and I wouldn't buy a SFF unless the price was the same as that of an ATX case + mobo + moderate PSU. Just about any reasonable ATX case is going to end up quieter than these SFFs if you build it right.